Frank Hanzlik: Making Tax Less Taxing: Avalara’s Partner-First Strategy

Chip Rodgers  0:00  
All right, all right. Here we go. Chip Rodgers, day one again. I think this is now been, we've been doing a lot of interviews all day already. You're four. You're four for Catalyst, right? Fourth? My fourth catalyst. Yeah, that's right. So started in Miami four years ago, and Denver, and then Chicago. And here we are, and I'm three. Three for me, I have to get my sticker. Yeah. So here we are in Seattle, and great event, and it's great energy, great

Frank Hanzlik  0:30  
energy. It's always great to be here. It's really the signature event for the partner community. And so it's something I look forward to every year.

Chip Rodgers  0:38  
It is great. I mean, the event has really grown and progressed. And it just, it really feels this is a great venue. A lot of energy, a lot of energy, and sort of everyone, it all feels like you're sort of, it's very manageable, but it's at this, you know, like everyone's all kind of in the same place, yeah, I

Frank Hanzlik  0:57  
feel like the first year, or maybe you're the first couple years, we were more like, in the side room, off to the side somewhere, and now, you know, we're like in the arena, we're in the big room. And to your point, I think every year the number of people gets bigger. I think the probably the the diversity of partners that are representing the ecosystem gets better, and we've got more and more representation from the executive rank. So it's just just a wonderful thing, like I said, it's really a signature event for the industry, and something we look forward to every year. Yeah, yeah,

Chip Rodgers  1:24  
fantastic. So I'm so excited to be joined now with with Frank hands like and Frank is VP of partnerships at Avalara, the the, you know, tax, tax, which is great. I love it. I love it. I've seen your guys booths have, and you guys have, like, orange sneakers, and you got the orange sneakers. Yeah,

Frank Hanzlik  1:51  
back in the day we had Margarita machines. Not as many of those anymore, but, but yeah, we always try to have have fun. The whole idea is make tax less taxing, because tax is really a pain, and so the more we can kind of take care of that for you using automation, the more you can focus on your business. Yeah,

Chip Rodgers  2:05  
yeah, fantastic. So, Frank, you've been in technology companies for your career. And you know, Avalara, Avalara, you were with Dell and Motorola. I

Frank Hanzlik  2:21  
worked at some smaller companies, had a chance to do a startup. I worked for a hedge fund for a bit, so I've seen a lot, but it's all been around tech. And Tech's really been a passion of mine, and it's been amazing to see, you know, the evolution of the industry. You know, we talk about this being the 50th year of Microsoft in the keynote this morning, and think about 50 years of tech. And so seeing, you know, internet, mobile phones, now it's aI everywhere. It's just, it's a really fun space to be in,

Chip Rodgers  2:47  
yeah, yeah, sure is. And we've got the gray hairs to prove it right. We do, I know we do. All earned, all earned. So, so tell us a little bit about, you know, Avalara is a great, you know, partner company. You guys go to market with partners, both in terms of services and then technology integrations. Tell us a little more just about, you know what your view of the Avalara partner ecosystem, and, and, and, you know how you're Yeah, yeah. Well,

Frank Hanzlik  3:14  
we were very fortunate. I think, from day one, our founder, Scott McFarland, basically, was very partner first, and not every company or every represent organization represented here has that privilege, if you will. But it really started on day one, literally from the top. And so now, you know, 20 plus years later, you know, we've got that great legacy of partner first, we've got 1400 plus technology integrations. My team principally works with our big tech partners. So it may be ERP partners, like a Microsoft or NetSuite. It may be E commerce partners like a Shopify or big commerce, or it could be FinTech partners. It could be a charge be it could be a stripe, could be a Zora. So we basically, really try to work with just about everybody in that ecosystem. Because the vision that Scott had and still has is being part of every transaction the world, which is a pretty big, hairy, audacious, a big vision. You got to be partnering kind of with everybody you know, to be able to really have a chance to being able to actually achieve that. Yeah,

Chip Rodgers  4:07  
so, I mean, that's how do you keep up good. Because not only do you have the integrations, but you got all the tax laws and and the local, you know, law changes and municipalities and all of that.

Frank Hanzlik  4:21  
Well, automation, automation, automation. Now today, you know AI is, is more and more a part of every conversation. I mean, we've been doing AI in different forms for a number of years, but it really fundamentally started with saying that the idea of manual calculation for something as complex as this, is something that changes so frequently and continues to broaden so much, is is just not something that anybody can really do, certainly not at scale. So the idea of using automation is kind of paramount. So whether it's the tariffs, which is a big thing, obviously, in the last few months here, I don't know how anybody could do that, you know, without automation. So I remember being in another event, literally day one, when the tariffs were coming out, and we're like, okay, it's. One, we have a whole set of automation that's going to be kind of turning on all of those new changes from that day, and then the next day, if it changes, we'll be ready the next day. So it's just one of those real automation first kind of plays that's turned to be very prescient and now is really paid out too

Chip Rodgers  5:15  
true. However, you also need to build those automations, right? I mean, and all of the and then build all those rules in. So it's a complicated you guys have a job. It's very complicated.

Frank Hanzlik  5:25  
And I think part of that is not just the technology, as relates to the product suite, for example. But what does it mean for for all kinds of roles? What does it mean if you're a partner manager today? What does it mean if you're a partner manager in three or five years, and I think we're all being challenged, I think, at events like this, and being able to network, to understand, where can we really add value as humans, if you will, right? You know, where is our automation that can maybe take some of those more menial tasks and be able to do those and then the combination that hopefully allows us to really create better value for our partners and for our customers? Yeah,

Chip Rodgers  5:56  
so your partners, you know, obviously we're talking about the technology partners. But also, you know, GSIs, of course, have both, you know, consulting and transformation, you know, businesses, but then they've also got tax and audit as well, so they're all your partners. So yeah,

Frank Hanzlik  6:13  
we literally have 1000s of partners. I mentioned 1400 plus integrations. That's on the tech side, but we've got 1000s and 1000s of other partners in the kind of areas that you talked about, because it's so much about the ecosystem place. So if you're looking at a technology platform, an SAP and Oracle and NetSuite, whoever it is, who are all those different stakeholders that are in that value chain, right? So where are the GSIs? Where are the big four accounting firms? Where are the value added resellers? Where are some of the consultants, influencers? So trying to understand, how do you get everybody orchestrated, if you will, kind of around common vision, common goal. That's where you really can drive, I think, transformative change. And I think that's what everybody at an event like this is trying to understand, how do we do that, or how do we do that better, if we're doing some of it today?

Chip Rodgers  6:57  
And so how do you do it?

Frank Hanzlik  7:01  
You listen a lot. You come to events like this and and unlike what we're doing now, you try to listen more than you're speaking, you know, but, but really it's just being a student of the craft, you know. I think we've been in partnerships for a long time, but we always have things to learn. So I think whether it's networking events like this, whether it's, you know, looking at some of the research that's out there, whether it's trying to incorporate chat GBT into our daily routine every day. I think it's a combination of just being curious, really trying to be, you know, very, very focused on continuous learning and development.

Chip Rodgers  7:30  
Are you do you have tell us a little bit about how you keep your services partners, you know, updated on the latest you know capabilities and the new, you know, tax changes and things like that. I'm sure, you know, they need to be to have that information, to be smart in front of their customers. I'm sure you guys, you know, yeah. So

Frank Hanzlik  7:50  
it's, like many of these things, it's probably, it's an and kind of conversation. There's multiple ways we do it. So we've got portals. We have ongoing webinars, you know, we have other events that we'll do or we'll be using that to really kind of get the word about tariffs, for example, what does that mean relative to cross border if you're an implementer, what does it mean if you're doing on the advisory services side? What does that mean? So, you know, if you have that ecosystem kind of focused, there's a constant need to continue to, you know, get the word out in terms of, like, what's coming and how to be prepared. And then, to my point, a moment ago, use as a listening opportunity as well. Like, what are we missing, perhaps, what can we do in the curriculum? What can we do in some of the ABLE materials that would make them more successful, in terms of some of those other partners in the value chain, getting more value out of

Chip Rodgers  8:33  
it? That's amazing, fantastic. So let's take a look back at the at the you know, technology partners again, how are you, you know, clearly, you have the the integrations, and you know, where you're really deeply embedded in a, you know, a Shopify kind of thing. You're deeply embedded. How do you are you also, I'm sure you are, but how are you also working with those, not only from a technology standpoint, but go to market where you're building the Better Together. Story, co selling. Well,

Frank Hanzlik  9:04  
I love that you said better together, because that's a big buzz word for me personally, and I think for the organization of late, I mean, the more you truly have a better together. Story, the opportunity for real value creation, the opportunity for differentiation, the opportunity for true joint go to market, it just gets exponentially larger. So I think in the old days, it was a check a box doing integration with Avalara, Avalara to XYZ tech company, and that was, that was great. Like, that's great. But now I think that's more kind of table stakes. And where we're really seeing the magic, I think, is, where are their partners that want to really get close? Where can we really look at the workflow? How is that processed today? What would be better about in the future? And is there a way we can collaborate using what a tech partner maybe does in their core business, if they're an ERP provider, for example, and then how can we kind of complement that? So we've got examples. You have very public examples with Oracle, for example, on the upper end, where we've really been very thoughtful about an integrated solution there, which is great for. The enterprise, and then at maybe the lower end, we've done some great things with Xero as well, where we've really looked at that kind of small accounting community and say, how could we make their lives easier and better?

Chip Rodgers  10:09  
Fantastic. Well, Frank, this has been terrific, really,

Frank Hanzlik  10:13  
pleasure to be with you and to be at these kind of events. It's just so much fun. Yeah,

Chip Rodgers  10:17  
fantastic. So you've shared a lot, and I really appreciate you taking some time, you know, to chat with us. Let's you know, we got the rest of the event this afternoon, and there's some like, a welcome reception, I think, and all that. Yeah, yeah.

Frank Hanzlik  10:35  
So I think for everybody that's at catalyst, enjoy. For those who aren't join partnership leaders, it's just a fantastic organization.

Chip Rodgers  10:41  
It is a great, great, great organization, great events. And not only catalyst, but also the local events

Frank Hanzlik  10:47  
those now too. That's a great point. It used to be just pretty much once a year, and now in most cities, not just the US, but around the world, there's some way of, kind of, really getting together and doing this on a smaller scale.

Chip Rodgers  10:56  
Yeah. Terrific. Frank, thank you. Yeah. And thank you all for joining and we will see you next time. Yeah, look.

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